The irony of reading your article and having dealt with this issue before, buying the part and not being able to loosing it and then coming to your articule to try to figure out the brand model of the cheater wrench so I can buy it and likely never using it again🤷♂️
Ha! I thankfully already had the breaker bar for working on cars. The pipe I found at a local recycled home improvement place. If it's just a one-time thing, you could perhaps try the inner tube method.
I have a lot of DUB cranksets but have never had this problem. Does the (Al) bolt gall badly enough that it's hard to get out even if it's not simultaneously trying to extract the crank?
I'm thinking that if you can pop the cap off - remove the Al bolt without it also working to pull the crank off the axle - fit the steel bolt and cap, and then use that pairing to pull the crank off.
The galling isn't between the head of the bolt and the extractor cap; it seems to be happening in the threads. Removing the extractor cap wouldn't have any effect on the issue I'm discussing here.
I mean if the bolt galls to the axle, if you take off the cap then the bolt only has one thing to do (wind itself out of the axle). With the cap on it’s trying to do two jobs, wind out of the axle and force the crank off the axle.
There’s a lot of extra tension in the threads if it’s pushing the crank off compared to just being rotated out.
This would give a chance to freshly clean and prep to have a crack (pun) at pushing the crank off with the Al kit. Or temporarily use the steel kit just for the extraction step and then put the lightweight stuff back in for riding around.
That's theoretically true, but not what I observe in practice. The struggle with DUB crank bolts is getting them to move at all initially. Once the bolt breaks free, there's not much force required to push the crankarm off of the spindle.
Wow. Then I’m extra grateful that I’ve never had any stuck DUB cranks. But then again I tend to pull them fairly frequently because I struggle with BB bearings. I was thinking of plumping for some XD15 hybrids next time to extend the maintenance interval but maybe I’m best with generic SRAM bearings and getting in there more often!
If you're regularly chowing through BB bearings (and it's not obviously due to water infiltration), I'd perhaps have a qualified shop evaluate the accuracy of your bottom bracket shell. If the shell isn't as it should be (parallel faces, concentric bores, and so on), you'll forever be chasing your tail.
In my shop days we serviced the bikes of a nationally ranked junior BMX racer. It didn’t take long for the more experienced mechanics to wander off when these bikes came up. Between the Ti pedal spindles and Ti square taper BB, the force needed and the resulting jolt transferred to wrists and elbows when the damned things finally let go was enough to scare off the strongest among us. This was even after getting slathered in Ti prep. Ouch.
Which also reminds me of what the old o-ring (before the cane creek patent expired) King threadless headsets did to the aluminum steerers of this kid’s ultra light forks.
While this part replacement is 1000% worth doing and does improve this problem, it still doesn’t solve it. Unless I’m doing something wrong with bolt prep, I still encounter a galling-type seizure in the thread even with the steel bolt.
I’d call it hit or miss, for sure. I don’t pull my crank often and when I do, I’ve probably washed my bike a few times over and may have just displaced the anti-seize enough to cause issue.
Hi James, do you know if the steel sram bolts will work on Easton cranks? I suspect not because I believe the spindle diameters are different, but maybe they do. If they don’t fit do you know of a comparable bolt for eastern cranks? I don’t have a bolt removal problem with my eastern cranks, but I don’t take the crank off often and I don’t want to find out down the road that I do have a problem. Thank you.
Sorry, I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. That said, I haven't heard of Easton cranks being commonly stubborn to remove, so I'd say to just make sure to apply a bit of anti-seize to the threads each time you remove the cranks and call it good.
When I first started working on spacecraft integration and test at JPL I was shocked there weren't 6/4 Ti fasteners everywhere, especially given how much attention is paid to mass budgets. Speaking with fastener and structural SMEs I quickly learned what you've summarized here: lightweight is great, but it has to work properly. The NASA flight fastener guide is a dense read (and fascinating if you're a nerd like me) but offers detailed insight into what materials play nice with each other. Perhaps SRAM can offer a DUB crank with Nitronic 60 thread inserts and an A286 fastener for the real aficionados among us ;)
I too use an automotive breaker bar on the DUB equipped bikes in my fleet, but have never resorted to the additional cheater pipe, etc. except for new bikes ostensibly assembled by gorillas at the factory. A liberal coat of Motorex 2000/Dura Ace grease on the thread interfaces, including fastener head, and properly* torquing with my trust ICON wrench (the working man's Snap On) results in a tight but not unbearable fit. (*don't get me started about proper use and storage of torque tools...)
Also, those damn self extracting caps are really good at working themselves loose on the trail. I put a dab of loctite blue on the threads when installing.
Ha, no kidding about how those self-extracting caps have a tendency to, uh, self-extract. I've lost track of how many I've picked up off the trail over the years.
Yep. If you look at the image of the two assemblies side-by-side, you'll see the bolt heads have different shapes to them, which are matched to the backside of the extractor caps.
I suspect there are far more people wowed by the impressively low claimed weight figures than there are people who will have to deal with trying to get these things off.
The irony of reading your article and having dealt with this issue before, buying the part and not being able to loosing it and then coming to your articule to try to figure out the brand model of the cheater wrench so I can buy it and likely never using it again🤷♂️
In any case, thank you !
Ha! I thankfully already had the breaker bar for working on cars. The pipe I found at a local recycled home improvement place. If it's just a one-time thing, you could perhaps try the inner tube method.
Thanks! I’m on two tubes already, nothing. Chester bar will arrive tomorrow. Thanks again!
I have a lot of DUB cranksets but have never had this problem. Does the (Al) bolt gall badly enough that it's hard to get out even if it's not simultaneously trying to extract the crank?
I'm thinking that if you can pop the cap off - remove the Al bolt without it also working to pull the crank off the axle - fit the steel bolt and cap, and then use that pairing to pull the crank off.
The galling isn't between the head of the bolt and the extractor cap; it seems to be happening in the threads. Removing the extractor cap wouldn't have any effect on the issue I'm discussing here.
I mean if the bolt galls to the axle, if you take off the cap then the bolt only has one thing to do (wind itself out of the axle). With the cap on it’s trying to do two jobs, wind out of the axle and force the crank off the axle.
There’s a lot of extra tension in the threads if it’s pushing the crank off compared to just being rotated out.
This would give a chance to freshly clean and prep to have a crack (pun) at pushing the crank off with the Al kit. Or temporarily use the steel kit just for the extraction step and then put the lightweight stuff back in for riding around.
That's theoretically true, but not what I observe in practice. The struggle with DUB crank bolts is getting them to move at all initially. Once the bolt breaks free, there's not much force required to push the crankarm off of the spindle.
Wow. Then I’m extra grateful that I’ve never had any stuck DUB cranks. But then again I tend to pull them fairly frequently because I struggle with BB bearings. I was thinking of plumping for some XD15 hybrids next time to extend the maintenance interval but maybe I’m best with generic SRAM bearings and getting in there more often!
If you're regularly chowing through BB bearings (and it's not obviously due to water infiltration), I'd perhaps have a qualified shop evaluate the accuracy of your bottom bracket shell. If the shell isn't as it should be (parallel faces, concentric bores, and so on), you'll forever be chasing your tail.
Young's Modulus showing up in damndest places...
In my shop days we serviced the bikes of a nationally ranked junior BMX racer. It didn’t take long for the more experienced mechanics to wander off when these bikes came up. Between the Ti pedal spindles and Ti square taper BB, the force needed and the resulting jolt transferred to wrists and elbows when the damned things finally let go was enough to scare off the strongest among us. This was even after getting slathered in Ti prep. Ouch.
Which also reminds me of what the old o-ring (before the cane creek patent expired) King threadless headsets did to the aluminum steerers of this kid’s ultra light forks.
Don't forget the distinctive gunpowder smell, too.
While this part replacement is 1000% worth doing and does improve this problem, it still doesn’t solve it. Unless I’m doing something wrong with bolt prep, I still encounter a galling-type seizure in the thread even with the steel bolt.
What are you doing with bolt prep? Some type of anti-seize, I presume?
Yep, anti-seize on the threads as well as the underside of the bolt head (I remove the extractor cap and treat the bolt, then reinstall).
This is something you encounter regularly with the steel bolt, or is this more of a hit-or-miss thing? That's bizarre!
I’d call it hit or miss, for sure. I don’t pull my crank often and when I do, I’ve probably washed my bike a few times over and may have just displaced the anti-seize enough to cause issue.
In the 2nd last photo, is there a crack in the axle near the back of the fluting?
Nope, that's just the edge of where the crankarm was.
Hi James, do you know if the steel sram bolts will work on Easton cranks? I suspect not because I believe the spindle diameters are different, but maybe they do. If they don’t fit do you know of a comparable bolt for eastern cranks? I don’t have a bolt removal problem with my eastern cranks, but I don’t take the crank off often and I don’t want to find out down the road that I do have a problem. Thank you.
Sorry, I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. That said, I haven't heard of Easton cranks being commonly stubborn to remove, so I'd say to just make sure to apply a bit of anti-seize to the threads each time you remove the cranks and call it good.
Thanks James. I have not had troubles with them. I’ll stay the course. Thanks again!
As the saying goes, no need to fix what isn't broken. And sure thing! Happy to help whenever possible.
When I first started working on spacecraft integration and test at JPL I was shocked there weren't 6/4 Ti fasteners everywhere, especially given how much attention is paid to mass budgets. Speaking with fastener and structural SMEs I quickly learned what you've summarized here: lightweight is great, but it has to work properly. The NASA flight fastener guide is a dense read (and fascinating if you're a nerd like me) but offers detailed insight into what materials play nice with each other. Perhaps SRAM can offer a DUB crank with Nitronic 60 thread inserts and an A286 fastener for the real aficionados among us ;)
I too use an automotive breaker bar on the DUB equipped bikes in my fleet, but have never resorted to the additional cheater pipe, etc. except for new bikes ostensibly assembled by gorillas at the factory. A liberal coat of Motorex 2000/Dura Ace grease on the thread interfaces, including fastener head, and properly* torquing with my trust ICON wrench (the working man's Snap On) results in a tight but not unbearable fit. (*don't get me started about proper use and storage of torque tools...)
Also, those damn self extracting caps are really good at working themselves loose on the trail. I put a dab of loctite blue on the threads when installing.
Ha, no kidding about how those self-extracting caps have a tendency to, uh, self-extract. I've lost track of how many I've picked up off the trail over the years.
Is there a reason I can’t use the old extractor cap?
Yep. If you look at the image of the two assemblies side-by-side, you'll see the bolt heads have different shapes to them, which are matched to the backside of the extractor caps.
$1,000 to lift one extra gram into space, or $1,000 to drop one pound off your bike - at least that was the rough number back in my bike shop days.
Thank you for the tips James. This will surely prevent some occasional frustration.
If I only prevent one set of bloody knuckles in the future, I will consider my job done.
After Al the problems I am surprised that SRAM still uses an Aluminum bolt. The potential downside is so much larger than a 10 gram weight gain.
I suspect there are far more people wowed by the impressively low claimed weight figures than there are people who will have to deal with trying to get these things off.
Very timely! Thanks!
You'll still have to get the stock bolts undone first, but once you get over that hurdle, you at least shouldn't ever have to do it again.
I just got my LBS to install a new bolt to try this out! (Greg Thomas, whom you may know).