I was never a road cyclist. I did many road rides and rode with road groups. However, my viewpoint and style was and still is informed by mostly dirt and some messenger tactics. My riding was aggressive and offensive when it came to traffic. When I did group rides I often received askance looks when I'd roll lights, track stand, bunny hop train tracks/potholes/detritus. I was not one to allow cars to be blissfully unaware of my presence and if they did something to threaten my existence I retaliated. This included shouting at top volume, banging on doors/windows, smashing rearview mirrors, scratching paint and whatever I could think of in the moment. I don't know if it worked, but I am still here and really do not feel any remorse about this behavior.
I am beyond those fool hardy nihilistic days at this point and avoid road rides. I do miss some of those long days out riding my single speed Swobo road bike or Kona CX bike mixing in cut-through trails and park double track into my adventures. However, I now have an abundance of off-road trails legit and pirate to ride that keep me from having to fear for my life because some dumbass was staring at their phone vs piloting their vehicle.
Ooh, good call! That would be super interesting to see. Given what Garbaruk charges for its other cassettes, it could be almost half the price of the Red one.
I stopped riding on the road by myself after my friend was struck and killed a couple years ago and I was the one that had to explain to his wife in the ER that his injuries were not survivable. The driver that hit him swerved because she was swatting at a bug that flew in her car and she was acquitted of negligent manslaughter. However, I had already been riding mountain bikes more exclusively due to the increasing danger of distracted and/or road raging driver. I will still ride the road with one of the local groups because drivers around southeastern Michigan seem to give groups less crap than solo riders. The only thing I miss about the COVID lockdowns was the lack of traffic on the roads. That was the only time I’ve ever been able to check out mentally on a road ride like I can on my mountain bike rides.
James, how do you like those Fulcrum wheels on your ENVE? I’ve been looking at getting a pair for my Fray because my current wheels (Reserve TA 42/49) have been getting blown around quite a bit in our unusually windy spring compared to the ENVE 3.4s on my old Allied Allroad.
I totally resonate with the feelings you have regarding riding on the road. The headlines, especially local ones, alongside what feels like backwards progress in terms of accountability are completely disheartening. I find myself gravitating towards the terrain where I know I am the only person in control of my own safety, as I have already been hit by a car in just the few thousand miles that I have ridden on the road. I am not sure that my feelings towards riding on the road will ever be the same, and maybe that is for the best.
The gravel fork thing is very interesting to me, especially in light of your former employers recent share. I wish there was a comprehensive comparison of weights, including different rigid options and one-offs like the Lauf. I also am curious about efficiency losses when standing while pedaling/bob in general.
Yeah, I heard about that. I found that "study" interesting, but hardly conclusive given the incredibly limited scope.
Regardless, I think it's pointless to try and find single answers to complex questions. In this case, the question of whether it's faster to run narrower tires with a suspension fork or wider tires with a rigid fork is almost always going to be, "It depends."
What tires exactly?
What tire pressures?
What are your priorities regarding rolling resistance, weight, aero efficiency, and traction?
What does *your* particular gravel riding look like?
If your terrain is mixed, what portion of it is most important to you?
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing people putting in the work like this. But more often than not, it just provides more food for thought, not an actual single "answer."
For me, there are situations when a suspension stem will be best. Or sometimes a fully rigid setup with very high-volume and lightweight tires. Or other times, a suspension fork with medium-sized tires.
I agree. I think the pod on suspension vs mtb tires over generalized. That said, I think the “study” probably had very real, specifically aplicable results for the one rider being studied. I was a bit surprised that they were so free with their results. Wouldn’t a competitor want to hold that info close to their jersey? Or maybe it really is so intuitive that most people are getting there on their own?
I think those results would only be intuitive for someone who’s spent a lot of time riding different road and MTB tire and suspension combinations. And even then, it’s always better to have hard data than relying on gut feel.
All great thoughts/questions. I've recently been riding my mountain bike on road and gravel as I prepare for a fast marathon mountain bike race, so the suspension side of things has been on my mind. I did a ride the other night that is part of the gravel that will be on the gravel nationals route and generally we've been describing the gravel as 'champagne' gravel. I took a downhill KOM, which isn't surprising, but also almost took a rolling section before the downhill. I just kept pondering the impact of suspension, what is fastest for me, and what my goals really are. :)
Generally speaking, the whole point of suspension – whether it's from a dedicated component or the tires – is to maintain the tire's contact patch on the ground while isolating the rider from unnecessary impact forces. Basically, the rider can continue on a mostly uninterrupted path while the bike and/or tires are absorbing all the various imperfections of the terrain.
The question is what's the best approach to achieve that goal, right? I like proper suspension forks on one of my gravel bikes because I do a lot of underbiking on it. I can go faster because my front wheel is almost always firmly planted on the ground, my body is fresher because I'm not getting beat up so much, and there's enough quantity (and *quality*) of movement in the fork to handle some bigger impacts, too. That bike is always on the heavier side, though, so it's not always the best if I'm just out on less demanding dirt/gravel roads or if I know there's going to be heaps of climbing.
My other gravel bike has smaller (45/47 mm or so) tires, aero wheels, a suspension seatpost, and sometimes a suspension stem. It's lighter and more spritely on smoother terrain, and feels more like a road bike.
I 100% agree with James about road riding. There is a reason that I ride almost 100% off of paved roads. When I started riding in 1978 as a University of Arizona student we had a daily morning group ride. In three years we didn’t have a single incident of any kind. Fast forward to today and Tucson is a much bigger town and everyone seems in a huge rush. People drive 70 on roads with 45 limits, pass on blind corners by crossing the double yellow line, etc.. For what? Simple math says that you’d get to work a maximum of 5 minutes sooner by pulling all those crazy stunts. So, leave 5 minutes earlier and don’t drive like a maniac. You not only endanger cyclists but also other motorists and yourself. How can it possibly be worth it?
The opening of this edition was a lot to take in, but something that resonated with me a lot. I live in the NYC/NJ area and access to less used roads/gravel/etc is very limited. Due to this, and work obligations, my time riding my bike has shifted earlier and earlier in the morning; some days getting on the road by 5:30am. I just feel safer at dawn with lights than I do mid day in full daylight. I've had to flip my brain off to just never think about any of it. That said, I'm still constantly battling to find enjoyment riding due just the overwhelming volume of cars now and how many of them just seem to be so ambivalent. And like you group rides stress me out from a numbers perspective, so I avoid them.
In a lighter note (I guess pun intended?), I'm glad to see IRC trying to get their tires lighter. I used to sing the praise of the DoubleCross tire in the EC server as being a truly great 'all round' pure gravel tire; good grip in slicker dirt/mud, rolls well on hardpack, doesn't feel like it skates on pebbles. They just were very stiff other wise, and kind of hard to justify as a full time tire if you had a more 80/20 riding breakdown. Even the Boken Plus was good, but the 60tpi really made it a razor thin margin of feeling dead and great on the road. I'd be curious to try the Boken Pro at some point, and the G-Claw looks like a good rival to something like the Cinturato H.
I hear you on the DoubleCross. I actually quite like IRC's thinking with that tread pattern, but agree that it had a very narrow window of inflation pressure where it felt good.
Totally agree re road riding. We live on the northern edge of the metro zone in Sydney Australia & the traffic is just insane at most times. As a nearly 70 year old who returned to road cycling after about a 15 year absence, the aggression on the roads is just insane. I am relegated to leaving home at about 6am (in the dark at this time of year) on a Sunday morning and head out for about 2 hours before the traffic starts up again. Even then, you still get the dickheads that feel they need to show everyone their “masculinity “ (and they are invariably male) by yelling or blowing their horn at you, etc. The roads here don’t help either. The “bike lanes” are a joke - they often just disappear into the normal traffic lane, have branches and stuff hanging over them or are full of broken glass. I have vivid memories of riding my first bike on roads through northern Sydney as a kid that frankly I wouldn’t dream of nowadays!
As a Boulderite who visited Sydney last year and did some riding (I was staying in Manly and did a bunch of loops up north), the roads you guys ride are truly insane - I kept thinking “people really ride THIS?”
The Cable routing on that DT/Canyon Fork is cringe-worthy IMO. I suspect that no mfger of hydraulic hoses would sign off on the forces that repeated cycling of a suspension fork would cause on the hose. In the shops these days we are witnessing the early days of frustration in servicing any and all instances of the horrid internally routing everything trend. Each brand has chosen their own version on headset/stem interface which likely will be abandoned shortly hereafter. This pretty much confirms that many bike sold in the last 5 years may be unserviceable as the bike world is very quick to abandon underperforming standards with no respect given for bikes in the field. In our shop I see 6 or more unique heaset/stem/spacer standards on the daily. This can't be progress. I have also theorized that the bikes sold in the last 5+ years may begin to see many hydraulic hose failures become commonplace as the forces of vibration and friction can't help but wear these out. Maybe someone should ask AI how long until modern bikes become death traps. .. I'll ramble further to say that the one piece bar/stem has set us back 40+ years in bike fitting. Most customers do not (or will not) spend $500+ to gain the 1cm +/- often needed to improve their fit in term of bar width or stem length/drop or rise. This puts us right back to the 70's/80's (before removable faceplates) where changing a stem length or height required wrangling the stem around the bend of the drops, and re-wrapping the bars and often recabling the bike. So yes, we have gone backwards in bikefit for vanity (and maybe aerodynamics)..
As someone who spent nearly 15 years working as a shop mechanic, I can only imagine the sort of BS you deal with these days. My fear is that what DT Swiss has done here with the brake hose routing might give some engineers the inspiration to pursue something like that on mountain bike forks despite the obvious backlash in that market to headset-style cable routing in general.
I was never a road cyclist. I did many road rides and rode with road groups. However, my viewpoint and style was and still is informed by mostly dirt and some messenger tactics. My riding was aggressive and offensive when it came to traffic. When I did group rides I often received askance looks when I'd roll lights, track stand, bunny hop train tracks/potholes/detritus. I was not one to allow cars to be blissfully unaware of my presence and if they did something to threaten my existence I retaliated. This included shouting at top volume, banging on doors/windows, smashing rearview mirrors, scratching paint and whatever I could think of in the moment. I don't know if it worked, but I am still here and really do not feel any remorse about this behavior.
I am beyond those fool hardy nihilistic days at this point and avoid road rides. I do miss some of those long days out riding my single speed Swobo road bike or Kona CX bike mixing in cut-through trails and park double track into my adventures. However, I now have an abundance of off-road trails legit and pirate to ride that keep me from having to fear for my life because some dumbass was staring at their phone vs piloting their vehicle.
I would LOVE to see a 13 speed Garbaruk cassette as an alternative to the insanely expensive Sram Red XPLR option!
Ooh, good call! That would be super interesting to see. Given what Garbaruk charges for its other cassettes, it could be almost half the price of the Red one.
I too share halcyon memories of care free road riding. Unfortunately, I also share the melancholia. It was not an easy read. Surely harder to write.
I stopped riding on the road by myself after my friend was struck and killed a couple years ago and I was the one that had to explain to his wife in the ER that his injuries were not survivable. The driver that hit him swerved because she was swatting at a bug that flew in her car and she was acquitted of negligent manslaughter. However, I had already been riding mountain bikes more exclusively due to the increasing danger of distracted and/or road raging driver. I will still ride the road with one of the local groups because drivers around southeastern Michigan seem to give groups less crap than solo riders. The only thing I miss about the COVID lockdowns was the lack of traffic on the roads. That was the only time I’ve ever been able to check out mentally on a road ride like I can on my mountain bike rides.
James, how do you like those Fulcrum wheels on your ENVE? I’ve been looking at getting a pair for my Fray because my current wheels (Reserve TA 42/49) have been getting blown around quite a bit in our unusually windy spring compared to the ENVE 3.4s on my old Allied Allroad.
Oh man, I can't imagine what that must have been like. I'm so sorry :(
The Fulcrum wheels are honestly fantastic. Great crosswind performance, very fast, and the freehub is very quiet.
I totally resonate with the feelings you have regarding riding on the road. The headlines, especially local ones, alongside what feels like backwards progress in terms of accountability are completely disheartening. I find myself gravitating towards the terrain where I know I am the only person in control of my own safety, as I have already been hit by a car in just the few thousand miles that I have ridden on the road. I am not sure that my feelings towards riding on the road will ever be the same, and maybe that is for the best.
Great write up, as always!
I'm disheartened by how I feel about it, but I'm also so angry because I feel like something I really used to enjoy has been taken away from me.
The gravel fork thing is very interesting to me, especially in light of your former employers recent share. I wish there was a comprehensive comparison of weights, including different rigid options and one-offs like the Lauf. I also am curious about efficiency losses when standing while pedaling/bob in general.
Yeah, I heard about that. I found that "study" interesting, but hardly conclusive given the incredibly limited scope.
Regardless, I think it's pointless to try and find single answers to complex questions. In this case, the question of whether it's faster to run narrower tires with a suspension fork or wider tires with a rigid fork is almost always going to be, "It depends."
What tires exactly?
What tire pressures?
What are your priorities regarding rolling resistance, weight, aero efficiency, and traction?
What does *your* particular gravel riding look like?
If your terrain is mixed, what portion of it is most important to you?
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing people putting in the work like this. But more often than not, it just provides more food for thought, not an actual single "answer."
For me, there are situations when a suspension stem will be best. Or sometimes a fully rigid setup with very high-volume and lightweight tires. Or other times, a suspension fork with medium-sized tires.
I agree. I think the pod on suspension vs mtb tires over generalized. That said, I think the “study” probably had very real, specifically aplicable results for the one rider being studied. I was a bit surprised that they were so free with their results. Wouldn’t a competitor want to hold that info close to their jersey? Or maybe it really is so intuitive that most people are getting there on their own?
I think those results would only be intuitive for someone who’s spent a lot of time riding different road and MTB tire and suspension combinations. And even then, it’s always better to have hard data than relying on gut feel.
All great thoughts/questions. I've recently been riding my mountain bike on road and gravel as I prepare for a fast marathon mountain bike race, so the suspension side of things has been on my mind. I did a ride the other night that is part of the gravel that will be on the gravel nationals route and generally we've been describing the gravel as 'champagne' gravel. I took a downhill KOM, which isn't surprising, but also almost took a rolling section before the downhill. I just kept pondering the impact of suspension, what is fastest for me, and what my goals really are. :)
Generally speaking, the whole point of suspension – whether it's from a dedicated component or the tires – is to maintain the tire's contact patch on the ground while isolating the rider from unnecessary impact forces. Basically, the rider can continue on a mostly uninterrupted path while the bike and/or tires are absorbing all the various imperfections of the terrain.
The question is what's the best approach to achieve that goal, right? I like proper suspension forks on one of my gravel bikes because I do a lot of underbiking on it. I can go faster because my front wheel is almost always firmly planted on the ground, my body is fresher because I'm not getting beat up so much, and there's enough quantity (and *quality*) of movement in the fork to handle some bigger impacts, too. That bike is always on the heavier side, though, so it's not always the best if I'm just out on less demanding dirt/gravel roads or if I know there's going to be heaps of climbing.
My other gravel bike has smaller (45/47 mm or so) tires, aero wheels, a suspension seatpost, and sometimes a suspension stem. It's lighter and more spritely on smoother terrain, and feels more like a road bike.
Horses for courses.
I 100% agree with James about road riding. There is a reason that I ride almost 100% off of paved roads. When I started riding in 1978 as a University of Arizona student we had a daily morning group ride. In three years we didn’t have a single incident of any kind. Fast forward to today and Tucson is a much bigger town and everyone seems in a huge rush. People drive 70 on roads with 45 limits, pass on blind corners by crossing the double yellow line, etc.. For what? Simple math says that you’d get to work a maximum of 5 minutes sooner by pulling all those crazy stunts. So, leave 5 minutes earlier and don’t drive like a maniac. You not only endanger cyclists but also other motorists and yourself. How can it possibly be worth it?
The opening of this edition was a lot to take in, but something that resonated with me a lot. I live in the NYC/NJ area and access to less used roads/gravel/etc is very limited. Due to this, and work obligations, my time riding my bike has shifted earlier and earlier in the morning; some days getting on the road by 5:30am. I just feel safer at dawn with lights than I do mid day in full daylight. I've had to flip my brain off to just never think about any of it. That said, I'm still constantly battling to find enjoyment riding due just the overwhelming volume of cars now and how many of them just seem to be so ambivalent. And like you group rides stress me out from a numbers perspective, so I avoid them.
In a lighter note (I guess pun intended?), I'm glad to see IRC trying to get their tires lighter. I used to sing the praise of the DoubleCross tire in the EC server as being a truly great 'all round' pure gravel tire; good grip in slicker dirt/mud, rolls well on hardpack, doesn't feel like it skates on pebbles. They just were very stiff other wise, and kind of hard to justify as a full time tire if you had a more 80/20 riding breakdown. Even the Boken Plus was good, but the 60tpi really made it a razor thin margin of feeling dead and great on the road. I'd be curious to try the Boken Pro at some point, and the G-Claw looks like a good rival to something like the Cinturato H.
Sorry for rambling, I can talk tires all day.
It was a lot for me to write, too :(
I hear you on the DoubleCross. I actually quite like IRC's thinking with that tread pattern, but agree that it had a very narrow window of inflation pressure where it felt good.
Totally agree re road riding. We live on the northern edge of the metro zone in Sydney Australia & the traffic is just insane at most times. As a nearly 70 year old who returned to road cycling after about a 15 year absence, the aggression on the roads is just insane. I am relegated to leaving home at about 6am (in the dark at this time of year) on a Sunday morning and head out for about 2 hours before the traffic starts up again. Even then, you still get the dickheads that feel they need to show everyone their “masculinity “ (and they are invariably male) by yelling or blowing their horn at you, etc. The roads here don’t help either. The “bike lanes” are a joke - they often just disappear into the normal traffic lane, have branches and stuff hanging over them or are full of broken glass. I have vivid memories of riding my first bike on roads through northern Sydney as a kid that frankly I wouldn’t dream of nowadays!
As a Boulderite who visited Sydney last year and did some riding (I was staying in Manly and did a bunch of loops up north), the roads you guys ride are truly insane - I kept thinking “people really ride THIS?”
The Cable routing on that DT/Canyon Fork is cringe-worthy IMO. I suspect that no mfger of hydraulic hoses would sign off on the forces that repeated cycling of a suspension fork would cause on the hose. In the shops these days we are witnessing the early days of frustration in servicing any and all instances of the horrid internally routing everything trend. Each brand has chosen their own version on headset/stem interface which likely will be abandoned shortly hereafter. This pretty much confirms that many bike sold in the last 5 years may be unserviceable as the bike world is very quick to abandon underperforming standards with no respect given for bikes in the field. In our shop I see 6 or more unique heaset/stem/spacer standards on the daily. This can't be progress. I have also theorized that the bikes sold in the last 5+ years may begin to see many hydraulic hose failures become commonplace as the forces of vibration and friction can't help but wear these out. Maybe someone should ask AI how long until modern bikes become death traps. .. I'll ramble further to say that the one piece bar/stem has set us back 40+ years in bike fitting. Most customers do not (or will not) spend $500+ to gain the 1cm +/- often needed to improve their fit in term of bar width or stem length/drop or rise. This puts us right back to the 70's/80's (before removable faceplates) where changing a stem length or height required wrangling the stem around the bend of the drops, and re-wrapping the bars and often recabling the bike. So yes, we have gone backwards in bikefit for vanity (and maybe aerodynamics)..
As someone who spent nearly 15 years working as a shop mechanic, I can only imagine the sort of BS you deal with these days. My fear is that what DT Swiss has done here with the brake hose routing might give some engineers the inspiration to pursue something like that on mountain bike forks despite the obvious backlash in that market to headset-style cable routing in general.